[Plone-docs] Developer manual "tutorials" section?

[Dylan Jay]

Hi,

Is it just me or does the "tutorials" section of the community
developer manual feel out of place?

Shouldn't ArchGenXML be filled under Content management > Archetypes?
and Buildout tutorial be put under a new section like "Configuring
plone"?

Anyone have any problem if I make those changes?

---
Dylan Jay
Technical Solutions Manager
PretaWeb: reducing duplication in the government web.
P: [phone] | M: [phone] | twitter.com/djay75 | linkedin.com/
in/djay75

[Clayton Parker]

Post by Dylan Jay
Is it just me or does the "tutorials" section of the community
developer manual feel out of place?
Shouldn't ArchGenXML be filled under Content management > Archetypes?
and Buildout tutorial be put under a new section like "Configuring
plone"?
Anyone have any problem if I make those changes?

If you do this, make sure there are proper redirects in place from the old location.

Clayton

[Dylan Jay]

Post by Clayton Parker

Post by Dylan Jay
Is it just me or does the "tutorials" section of the community
developer manual feel out of place?
Shouldn't ArchGenXML be filled under Content management > Archetypes?
and Buildout tutorial be put under a new section like "Configuring
plone"?
Anyone have any problem if I make those changes?

If you do this, make sure there are proper redirects in place from the old location.

I've been thinking hard on how to do this but no answers yet.
For those not aware the community manual on plone.org is actually the
result of a conversion process from svn -> sphinx -> funnelweb ->
plone. The information on where items used to be isn't available to
sphinx from svn so it's not possible automate this yet so any renaming
in svn won't result in redirects in plone :( Unless someone can think
of a clever way to get svn to produce a list of previous paths for
each piece of content.
The only solution would be to manually reproduce the moves in plone
first and then reupload the content overtop.

Post by Clayton Parker
Clayton
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[Mikko Ohtamaa]

Post by Dylan Jay

Post by Dylan Jay
Is it just me or does the "tutorials" section of the community
developer manual feel out of place?

It is no planned very well, so putting things to proper places is maybe a
topic for upcoming sprints.

I'd suggest the section is renamed to "Tools, technologies and processes".

Post by Dylan Jay
I've been thinking hard on how to do this but no answers yet.
For those not aware the community manual on plone.org is actually the
result of a conversion process from svn -> sphinx -> funnelweb ->
plone. The information on where items used to be isn't available to
sphinx from svn so it's not possible automate this yet so any renaming
in svn won't result in redirects in plone :( Unless someone can think
of a clever way to get svn to produce a list of previous paths for
each piece of content.
The only solution would be to manually reproduce the moves in plone
first and then reupload the content overtop.

The conversion process is already little fragile, so I suggest let's not try
to make it more complicate and we'll just rely on Plone's automatic "Page
not found - suggestions" feature :)


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[Raphael Ritz]

On 2/17/11 12:06 PM, Mikko Ohtamaa wrote:

[..]

Post by Mikko Ohtamaa

Post by Dylan Jay
I've been thinking hard on how to do this but no answers yet.
For those not aware the community manual on plone.org is actually the
result of a conversion process from svn -> sphinx -> funnelweb ->
plone. The information on where items used to be isn't available to
sphinx from svn so it's not possible automate this yet so any renaming
in svn won't result in redirects in plone :( Unless someone can think
of a clever way to get svn to produce a list of previous paths for
each piece of content.
The only solution would be to manually reproduce the moves in plone
first and then reupload the content overtop.

The conversion process is already little fragile, so I suggest let's not try
to make it more complicate and we'll just rely on Plone's automatic "Page
not found - suggestions" feature :)

If the change consists of "only" moving some subtree to a different
location (without changing the structure within the tree) you can
maintain the old links by defining a Python Script (TTW in ZMI in
the parent folder of the moved one) like so:

base = container.absolute_url()
subpath = '/'.join(traverse_subpath)
url = base + <relative path to new location> + subpath
context.REQUEST.RESPONSE.redirect(url)

The script needs to have the same id as the folder that
moved elsewhere. Guess you get the idea.
More of a hack or work-around but functional.

Raphael

Post by Mikko Ohtamaa
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[Dylan Jay]

Post by Raphael Ritz
[..]

Post by Mikko Ohtamaa

Post by Dylan Jay
I've been thinking hard on how to do this but no answers yet.
For those not aware the community manual on plone.org is actually the
result of a conversion process from svn -> sphinx -> funnelweb ->
plone. The information on where items used to be isn't available to
sphinx from svn so it's not possible automate this yet so any renaming
in svn won't result in redirects in plone :( Unless someone can think
of a clever way to get svn to produce a list of previous paths for
each piece of content.
The only solution would be to manually reproduce the moves in plone
first and then reupload the content overtop.

The conversion process is already little fragile, so I suggest let's not try
to make it more complicate and we'll just rely on Plone's automatic "Page
not found - suggestions" feature :)

If the change consists of "only" moving some subtree to a different
location (without changing the structure within the tree) you can
maintain the old links by defining a Python Script (TTW in ZMI in
base = container.absolute_url()
subpath = '/'.join(traverse_subpath)
url = base + <relative path to new location> + subpath
context.REQUEST.RESPONSE.redirect(url)
The script needs to have the same id as the folder that
moved elsewhere. Guess you get the idea.
More of a hack or work-around but functional.

Interesting hack but unfortunately the problem isn't how to get it to
redirect (that's already taken care of) but knowing what to redirect
from.

I did have on idea on this. If there was a convention of putting a
small section on the bottom of each sphinx page which listed the
"previous" paths that page was available at. We could then create a
transmogrifier blueprint which extracted those paths and that could be
used by transmogrify.ploneremote to set the plone redirector

[Dylan Jay]

Post by Mikko Ohtamaa

Post by Dylan Jay

Post by Dylan Jay
Is it just me or does the "tutorials" section of the community
developer manual feel out of place?

It is no planned very well, so putting things to proper places is maybe a
topic for upcoming sprints.

fair enough. Along with merging the two manuals + deleting any KB
articles with content already covered in the manual.

Post by Mikko Ohtamaa
I'd suggest the section is renamed to "Tools, technologies and
processes".

Isn't the whole document about tools, technologies and processes?
Are you trying to say that things like ArchGenXML and buildout are
external to Plone so should be in it's own section?
If so I disagree. I think it's more helpful to organise things by how
it helps the developers. ArchGenXML helps you create content types.
Buildout helps you configure plone. Paster is about creating plugins/
packages.

Post by Mikko Ohtamaa

Post by Dylan Jay
I've been thinking hard on how to do this but no answers yet.
For those not aware the community manual on plone.org is actually the
result of a conversion process from svn -> sphinx -> funnelweb ->
plone. The information on where items used to be isn't available to
sphinx from svn so it's not possible automate this yet so any
renaming
in svn won't result in redirects in plone :( Unless someone can think
of a clever way to get svn to produce a list of previous paths for
each piece of content.
The only solution would be to manually reproduce the moves in plone
first and then reupload the content overtop.

The conversion process is already little fragile, so I suggest let's not try
to make it more complicate and we'll just rely on Plone's automatic "Page
not found - suggestions" feature :)

Tell me what's going wrong and I'll fix it.

Post by Mikko Ohtamaa
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[Clayton Parker]

<snip>
The conversion process is already little fragile, so I suggest let's not try
to make it more complicate and we'll just rely on Plone's automatic "Page
not found - suggestions" feature :)

That will just complicate the lives of everyone else, we really shouldn't make it harder for people to find documentation that is already scattered. Big -1 on just leaving a Not Found and letting the user figure it out!

Clayton